January 14, 2021- In today’s podcast, we welcome special guest Rob Wiesenthal, Founder and CEO of Blade, a global urban air mobility platform that recently announced a business combination with SPAC Experience Investment Corp.
On the podcast Rob discusses:
- The transition from senior roles and experience at large corporations such as TripAdvisor, Starz, Warner Music and Sony to entrepreneurship
- How the idea for Blade came about and how it evolved from an idea to a business
- The SPAC deal process
- Blade’s key growth initiatives
Welcome investors to the Absolute Return Podcast. Your source for stock market analysis, global macro musings and hedge fund investment strategies. Your hosts Julian Klymochko and Michael Kesslering aim to bring you the knowledge and analysis you need to become a more intelligent and wealthier investor. This episode is brought to you by Accelerate Financial Technologies. Accelerate, because performance matters. Find out more at www.Accelerateshares.com.
Julian Klymochko: Hey, Rob, welcome to The Absolute Return Podcast. A real pleasure to have you on. I’m sure you’re super busy these days with the recently announced going public transaction, but want to get into it here, if you could talk to our listeners about, you know, how your career started. I was reading online, you had an interesting origin story, how you got your start in an investment bank in M&A, which was a somewhat lucky break, wasn’t it?
Rob Wiesenthal: Yes, it was a lucky break. And I think you refer to, I think it was an article that might’ve been written many, many years ago about how I fix someone’s printer to get a job. Well, the story is that I graduated from the University of Rochester but what I found out when I was starting to think about my career was that most of the people that I was in college with, they went to one of three companies, Kodak, Corning or think, there was one other local company there. But Kodak was the biggest being based in Rochester. And there weren’t a lot of opportunities for jobs in New York and invest in banking felt like a job that not only would I learn a lot but you get a lot of responsibility to young age, you’d be able to afford to live in the city. And it just sounds like a terrific challenge. And so, I try to get an internship in my sophomore year at, what was then called First Boston and its now Credit Suisse.
And I actually ended up being at the inflection point of investment bankers using adopting PCs, which was, it was probably 1985-86. And so, all the investment bankers who previously didn’t have PCs in the desk, they may have had used of what they called mini computers or mainframes now had PCs at their desks. And they basically hired me as user support. And my first day on the job, they gave me a desk and they handed me of this big manual. And on top of the manual, it said well, actually the guy who was taking me around, who I worked for said, tell me what this manual is? And I said, well, it says the First Boston corporation user support manual for personal computers, he said, great. Okay, now open the page. So, what does it say now? And it said, it says, if you have any questions, dial 3232. And he said, what’s your phone number? And I looked at my phone and it was 9093232. So, I realized that for the entire company, which was I think in this investment bank at that time, might’ve been, I don’t know, 800 people, maybe more, I don’t remember, but that I was actually this kind of stop gap of helping people use their PCs. This is pre network, pre-internet and make a long story short. At some point there was a big shot who had a printer that was printing landscape instead of portrait.
I was called over to his office and I fixed the printer and the guy asked me what I was doing. And I told him I was doing [Inaudible 00:03:31]. What are your ambitions? I said, I really want to be a summer analyst in M&A. And so why aren’t you? And I told him that my dad didn’t work at, I wasn’t the CFO of Occidental Petroleum or DuPont or Pfizer or Procter & Gamble because they really were kind of given out to clients back in the day. And he was taken aback a little bit, go speak to this woman. And eventually, that was Bruce Wasserstein who was kind of the head of that co-head of M&A, kind of a legend investment banking. And he and Joe Perella ran the M&A Group.
And the next summer I worked in M&A, and I stayed there essentially. Had a job there since I was 19 years old till I was a partner. I left as a partner ahead of Digital Media & Entertainment working Frank Quattrone in 2000. So, it was a turning point in my career. And I always tell people, young people that I meet with that your summer internships are much more important than you think. And it can really set you on an incredible career journey and to make sure you take them very seriously,
Julian Klymochko: Certainly, that resonates with both Mike and I, because we both started our careers as investment banking analysts, but certainly couldn’t fix a printer to save our lives, but you transitioned from investment banking and further on in your career, you have roles at TripAdvisor, Starz, Warner Music, Sony. How did all these various roles at different types of companies, investment bank to media companies, how did this prepare you to ultimately become founder and CEO?
Rob Wiesenthal: Well, I think that, I started Blade in between kind of, I would call it guardedly between working at Sony and Warner Music. I actually incubated Blade and then joined the company a year later. And I was very interested in the idea since actually aviation reported it to me that helicopters were awfully expensive, they were unbranded. They had experiences that were really meant for kind of a B2B business, you know, corporate CEOs. You can think of the image of the guy with the grey hair coming off the helicopter in a suit and shaking someone’s hand, handing them like there document. I mean, it was a very strange kind of thing. And the booking process was done over a fax machine. You had two-day call-outs to get a helicopter. The FPOS, the terminals that they use kind of look like elementary school. They live like elementary school cafeterias, and they were decorated like dentist’s office. There was no experience, it was very intimidating. And I found out that the average capacity utilization was 1.4 out of 6 seats. So, I felt, especially in the Northeast, there were so many metropolitan areas where there were people going to the same place at roughly the same time that there had to be some type of business. There’s some type of way to leverage mobile technology, to aggregate people, a different type of terminal experience, where you can enjoy yourself and not only go through security and check in and things like that. And to kind of tell a story and it was one of the things that, you know, with my background, my son is fourth generation entertainment and, you know, a good movie and a good song tells a story. And I felt there was no one telling a story to the consumer and making travel that way both aspirational but also achievable and not intimidating. And we’re lucky enough that Blade is a verb now. And that was based on this idea of telling creating a narrative in terms of experience, but to your specific question of how that prepared me. Large companies, I like to say, which I’ve worked for many. When I was at Sony, there were 163,000 thousand employees at Sony Corporation. What I like to say is that there’s one stop shopping, any one person can stop anytime. And to innovate, to build something quickly, to try new things is very difficult. There’s a lot of bureaucracy, and you get to a certain point in your career where you have very firm ideas. You’re not getting any younger and you want to actually execute and you want the friction of completing a project or the friction of executing on a new idea to be the project and the idea itself and motivating people, but not bureaucracy stopping you or internal politics stopping you, all the things that stop innovation in big companies.
That was just too much.
So, I brought it to the point where I felt, I learned a lot. I’ve met a lot of people. I felt I built credibility, institutionally, both within the media business and finance and just in business in general. And that I was ready, it took me a long time. I guess I was a late bloomer. I mean, to become an entrepreneur at age 49, which I did, I’m definitely in the later, you know, it was that year or never to say the least, but I found it very, very liberating. And I think that understanding the issues of big companies, but having the training in terms of diligence and organization and writing skills and process, and pulling out the BS of, you know, not understanding where you stand in terms of, you know, performance reviews or that kind of one-stop shopping or bureaucracy politics, or infighting. Pulling all that out and being in part of a small organization that you’ve helped build with a common culture. I felt that it was time for me to embrace that. And I felt that was the only way an idea like this would live an idea like this would not survive in a large company,
Julian Klymochko: Right. And speaking of being at some of the large multinational corporations that you’re at, that, you know, have these bureaucracies and difficulty to innovate but having say 160,000 thousand employees at Sony, obviously a ton of resources at hand, how was the transition from being an executive at some of those very large companies to be being founder and CEO of a new start-up?
Rob Wiesenthal: I think, you know, you have to, one of the things that you, I tell people who have jobs, these large companies, especially if they’re senior. One of the pieces of advice that I give them is don’t confuse the chair with yourself. And what I mean by that is, you know, you may have a fancy business card and you work, you know, Warner Entertainment right now, or Warner Media, or you work at Sony, but at some point, you’re no longer going to be there and there’ll be someone else in that chair. And you need to build your own credibility. You need to be trusted. You need to have integrity. And at some point, you’re going to carry yourself. That business card is not going to carry you. And so, there’s no question that when you’re at Sony, you can pick up the phone and get anyone in the world. You want to pick up the phone and call Elon Musk, he will pick up the phone. And when you start your own company, you’re not carrying that card anymore. You’re really relying on your own network. You’re really relying on the value other people saw in you as an individual, as opposed to the resources you brought to [Inaudible 00:11:11]. Now, that can be a challenge and it can also be daunting. But it really is something that is a transition that, you know, everybody has to go through and it takes time. But what I would say is the upside of it is you’re able to try things and you’re able to make mistakes as long as they’re not lethal, all right. I always say, we’ll give you the car keys. You can dent the car, you can scratch the car, but you can crash the car. So as long as you really think about assessing your risk before you do things. You don’t want to be in a situation where people are too scared of working on projects and ideas that don’t work out, and you have that ability at a smaller company. In a big company, it’s very difficult to do that. It’s much easier to do nothing at a big company. You can have a wonderful career just following the party line, basically doing nothing, because if you actually try to innovate and it goes wrong, they may not be as forgiving as they would be in a small company.
Michael Kesslering: So, one thing that you mentioned earlier specific to Blade was the incubation process. Can you dive into exactly what happens in the incubation process for some of our listeners, as well as how you moved from that stage into the business that it is today?
Rob Wiesenthal: I think the incubation stage really was pressure testing the idea. Do the economics work. Is there a market there? What should the brand look like? What is the customer experience? And also, as you may know, Blade is asset like, we do not own nor operate any helicopters. So, we had to convince helicopter operators to work with us and essentially take a lower amount of dollars per hour of flight time than they would if they sold charters themselves, they couldn’t really figure out how to sell by the seat, and it was interesting. This is something where I can say, links back to my background at big companies. And it’s an interesting analogy. I was at Sony when all the music companies got together and said, you know, digital music is going to be something and we need to have a digital music service. And it was Universal, Warner, Sony, and a couple others. And they’re going to call it, PressPlay. And this is before iTunes. And as an industry, we couldn’t get it together. It took someone like Steve Jobs outside the industry who didn’t have the vested interest in, what am I going to do about my CD business? is still making billions of dollars. And how is digital going to impact that? I need to protect this legacy business as long as I can. We didn’t have digital rights management where people can’t steal files. And all this stuff comes into when you’re at these big companies.
And ultimately these large companies couldn’t agree and Press Play didn’t actually get started. It was a company called Movie Fly, which is no different than to a certain extent what Netflix is today. So, I actually saw the same thing where I saw seven helicopter operators who all wanted to get together and do essentially called ride sharing to a certain extent. And you can’t do it from the inside. You just can’t, you can’t. There’s just this, an innovator’s dilemma. They don’t want to kill the golden goose. If I do this by the seat thing, charter is going to go away. How do I know who’s going to be prioritized? This and that. And it’s much easier to do as a third party, bring people together than to be an incumbent, because everybody’s going to view you as a competition, and we’re not the competition. What we actually do is we do what we do best, which is aggregating people, creating our brands, create experience for the customers, both the customer experience, same thing in terms of their customer service, a technology stack that goes from consumer to cockpit, and then we take the economic risk. So, the operator can focus on what they’re good at, which is flying, maintaining, and training. They don’t need really much of a finance department anymore because we have a huge accounting dashboard. They don’t need technology. We provide them with an operating dashboard. They’re made to do outward marketing. They don’t need customer service. We’re 24/7 in app, text message, email, phone.
If you have a bad experience, yell at Blade, if you have a credit card dispute, we’re dealing with it. So, it reduced their costs and it gave them more visibility in terms of what their revenue stream would be like. And it really was, I think it was, it is a win-win and it’s something that’s going to be moving towards next generation aircraft eVTOL, because it’s going to allow us to have that seamless transition by not actually owning the assets. So, you have to take a look at what we built here, basically. And again, so I’ll go back to your question of incubation. It really was pressure testing. Is there a market there? What does the brand look like? Can we get the operators? And once we saw that there, it was time to kind of professionalize management and bring new people in. I came in as CEO and really raised money and take advantage of the opportunity.
Julian Klymochko: And that certainly took a number of years. Like you said, pressure testing, establishing the brand, making sure the product market fit. And clearly you resolved all that. And we’re ready for the next level, which is the going public process. Recently announced a going public transaction through a special purpose acquisition company, Experienced Investment Corp. Just recently, and I’m looking at the forecast and the investor presentation calling for significant growth, before we get into the transaction. Want you tell us how that whole process came about? certainly the SPAC market is very dynamic these days and a bit of a frenzy. So, was it a highly competitive process? Was it inbound? Or was it something that you guys pursued on your own?
Rob Wiesenthal: I would say it’s a little bit all the above. I mean, we were definitely pursued by a lot of private equity investors, growth investors, SPAC, because people saw the thesis that we have. And we’ve been making a lot of media talking about a lot of media stories and media analogies. I’ll give you just one more. And that is of Netflix and it’s something we talk about here a lot. And when Netflix started, they had terrific brands, a lot of users, a great service, the technology, but at the end of the day, they were moving DVDs and bags and they knew, they called the company Netflix for a reason because they knew streaming was going to increase their TAM geometrically. And as I said, they called the Netflix not DVDs in a bag. And we called our company Blade Urban Air Mobility, not Blade Helicopters. Because to a certain extent, that’s the analogy we see.
With streaming and Netflix, eVTOL is to Blade. We have the future infrastructure, including 12 terminals, including three in India, or hopefully getting more, you know, this year for sure. We have this customer in a cockpit technology, we’re asset light and we’re using our operators to operate our helicopters and other types of aircraft. And at some point, in addition to that, obviously the consumers that we have and the amazing brand and the trust that we made [Inaudible 00:19:10]. There’s going to be an equipment swap and our streaming will come, which is eVTOL. I think what’s really interesting about this is that people understand the thesis that unlike say many other companies, we’re not building something that is going to come in five years. We have a business today that is undergoing a transformation, right? And so, we’re using conventional rotorcraft today, but every, almost every aspect of the product that we offer the consumer, the flier is going to be the same besides the actual aircraft they’re going on. The destinations will largely be the same in the beginning. They’ll be going in the same heliports in the beginning, we’ll be going through Blade lounges and terminals in the beginning. And eventually we’ll start opening up to new infrastructure because at the end of the day, I think what’s really, really interesting. And I think the thesis that the investors are seeing right now and your listeners are seeing right now is that ground mobility has been radically transformed by software and battery technology, as evidenced by all the companies that you guys talk about every day, the EV companies, the charging station companies, the LiDar companies.
And the next battles in the air. It’s not even a question. And beyond that, something that you might not have thought of where your listeners might have thought of is when you think about combustion engine cars going to EV. The cars aren’t safer, yes, they’re less emissions. They’re not necessarily cheaper and being quieter isn’t really that much of an attribute, but the changes for EV for our type of a vertical transportation, there are enormous. Everything is about quiet. Everything is about safety. Emissions is a little bit of an issue, but not that bad, but our addressable market is completely driven by where we can fly to. But Julian, if I can land a block from your house, I can offer you a much better product that you like more than if I have to land you 20 minutes from your house by car and what’s stopping an influx of new virto ports is noise.
And the fact that helicopters are expensive, okay. Big thing is noise. We already down, we broke the Uber price barrier, and shattered it at 195 last year to the airport. And even $95 dollars [Inaudible 00:21:45], so prices aren’t much of an issue, but noise is a huge issue and price will go down as well. So, I actually think about the electrification story for vertical transportation. There are a lot more benefits to our use of helicopters than are to the public right now with EVs. It’s kind of remarkable when you think about it. And that, so I think that when you think about the public markets, whether it be SPACs or IPOs or private market investors, when they look at Blade, they’re really looking at is Urban Air Mobility platform that has all the pieces that are needed for eVTOL, but we’ve been building the business, creating an experience, building a brand, acquiring the flyers today, and then there’ll be this change. We’re not building something, and then, okay. Now how do we brand it? How do we get people to use this equipment? You know, what’s our marketing strategy? It’s all happening right now. This is just an equipment swap.
Michael Kesslering: That’s really interesting and very interesting way of looking at it from the public market’s perspective. And so, what we do as a company is invest in SPACs, but from the target company’s perspective, you know, what compelled you to choose a SPAC versus a traditional IPO process?
Rob Wiesenthal: Obviously, and you probably know this better than anybody. The opportunity to share long-term plans, and long-term projections is obviously a very big deal when you’re involved in an industry that’s going through this transformation. I think if eVTOL were, you know, ten years off instead of three to five, neither would make sense. I think if eVTOL was here, a direct listing or an IPO probably would make sense, but it’s the ability to talk about, you know, the things we just talked about. What does it really know? Morgan Stanley says in five years, this is going to be a $125 billion dollar market. And in five years, right? And I think $625 billion in 10 years, even if you haircut those numbers, the implied valuation of the acquisition to the investors is about $450 million dollars. So even if this is a huge market, everyone’s saying, well, what’s your competitive advantage, we have a lot of competitive advantages, but there are going to be a lot more people in this space, but we’re going to have been here early. We’re going to be taking our time building this brand, getting more flyers, flying people. And then just, you know, they’re going to start flying a new type of aircraft and they’re going to have new opportunities of new places to land. So, this kind of transformation inflection point in terms of technology is why you see a lot of companies looking towards the SPAC, as opposed to say another venture round or potentially an IPO.
Julian Klymochko: And another competitive advantage of the SPAC, which clearly is very applicable in your transaction is raising a significant amount of cash. You guys upon closing looks like may end up with nearly $400 million dollars in cash for funding growth initiatives. So, as you look into post-closing, do you want to discuss some of the company’s main growth initiatives, specifically, Rob, you have mentioned this eVTOL technology, and for a reference to the listeners that stands for electric vertical take-off and landing aircraft. That appears to be a huge initiative for you guys.
Rob Wiesenthal: It’s a big initiative. It’s a big initiative, but it’s a very natural move for us. So again, unlike maybe other companies that you’ve been speaking to where their work and technology, or even the eVTOL in your factors where it’s this bet, and we hope it comes on time and we hope it flies. And we hope that our customers, again, we’re a platform. We have all these pieces, we’re an index play on the electrification of flight to a certain extent, especially when it comes to vertical flight. So, you don’t have to bet on it, is it going to be Joby? Is it going to be Lilium? Is it going to be Airbus? No, we don’t know. One is going to come earlier; one is going to come later. Is it going to be too expensive? Will it get certified on time? Even today we require to offer you the public or flyers the kind of routes that we want. It requires a portfolio of different types of air aircraft. One could be a large Sikorsky. One can be a Belfour 7, maybe it’s an amphibious seaplane. We couldn’t use one aircraft. We have to have that portfolio. So, when people think about all the massive amount of this transformation and value creation has happened on the ground, and they think about this moving to the air, and they think about this idea that it really is going to be cheaper unlike electric cars. Being quiet really is an advantage, and it’s going to be safer because of redundancies, we all hope. That is a, you know, a big value proposition for people you know, without question. So, what our job is with is capital is deployed in a way to add more routes that people want, to invest deeper infrastructure so we can have economic advantages today using helicopters, and then also solidify our competitive posture when this transition happens to eVTOL, because putting six people or nine people, or twelve people, or sixteen people on any type of aircraft who don’t know each other in a safe way, in a way that’s organized where the right bags get on the right helicopters are the right aircraft, the right people get on the right aircraft, doing health and safety checks like we do now, where we’re doing not only temperature checks and electrostatic decontamination, right now, we do blood oxygen saturation tests for every flight. You can’t do that unless you have this terminal infrastructure and have this customer experience focus, that’s all set now, and that doesn’t have to change with the equipment. So, our investments are going to be for launching new routes, acquisitions of a new infrastructure, so we can make sure we have a solidification of our positions for these routes.
And then also, you know, to use the M&A template that we have to acquire new customers and what we do, we’ve done this successfully in the past is if we want to buy a competitor, we actually don’t buy them. What we do is we say, you have this great company, you’re flying people on buy the seat basis, we’re Blade. We can do all these great things for you. We have the capital, the brand, the technology, the flyers, and what we’d like to do is get out of the seat business, you do what you like to do, fly, maintain, train, use our branding, and we’ll have a long-term agreement with you. So, all of a sudden at that point, we pay probably something upfront. We now have a new operator for a new route who may even have their own customers. We actually don’t acquire those assets, but it does require some capital and that capital is going to be coming from the proceeds. And then also when we talk about investing new routes, there’s no question that investing in new routes is also not only marketing, but building up the utilization to the point of profitability,
Julian Klymochko: Right. And from a consumer perspective you mentioned your competitive posture and competitive advantages. Say, a consumer was looking for some sort of transportation in New York to the airport, what sort of competition does Blade face in the market currently?
Rob Wiesenthal: Well, I think so far, everybody who has tried to compete with us in our core markets has either left the business or weren’t able to financially sustain their business. Uber used to compete with us in New York. We did 10 times the volume than they did in New York last year, despite the fact that they have over 2 million people on their app in New York city. And I think because they couldn’t get the captive infrastructure that we have in New York city, we really have a moat that’s competitive around New York city. There’s no way to fly into New York without going through, you know, either through, around Blade terminal. And it’s what we do. I think it was also a consumer issue of have the people, we like to say. How the people drive, drive you? How do people fly, fly you?
I think consumers thought of some guy with a small helicopter in his backyard who wants to make some extra money and putting on a suction cup with his phone on the windshield and like flying for Uber. That’s not what they did, but there was still that concept. It was a real brand issue with them being in the helicopter business. In the beginning, you know, this is, you know, Blade started as a high-end brand because we wanted to work our way down to preserve that sanctity of that strong brand. And because it was very expensive, we started this business, you know, the cheapest way you could fly was $800 dollar. We’re down at $95 now, so you can’t start low and go high. You need to start with a Mercedes and moved down here $20,000 dollars Mercedes. It’s very difficult to do it the other direction. So, so far, we’re one of one, but that’s not going to be for long. If this truly is going to be $125 billion dollar business in five years, there’s going to be room for a lot of people. But I don’t believe, but I think that we’re going to be best positioned in the market. So, I expect competition. It’s not here yet. I think the manufacturers of the eVTOL that believe that they can do the entire stack from making the EV towel to branding it, branding a service, creating customer experience, having infrastructure, building the software for the consumer. To me, it’s complicated enough to try to do what they’re doing, which is to certify an electric aircraft. I do not understand why they feel the need to build that entire stack, but I think they’re going to have a real uphill battle compared to us. They need to get to automotive scale to make money. We need to get to three out of six people on an aircraft to make money.
Julian Klymochko: Right, so certainly that showcases or highlights the benefits of the asset like business model. Now, circling back to that experience, investment, going public transaction, you guys are raising $125 million-dollar, financing via a pipe deal. So clearly a number of institutional investors are involved in this capital raise. So, say if you were to sit down with an investor and you have two minutes, how would you talk about the Blade investment story to that potential investor?
Rob Wiesenthal: Think we covered all happened already, to be honest with you. I’ll say what I said. I’ll just say it louder this time. I’m just kidding. What you’ve seen in grand mobility, the acceleration of this transformation of going to electric is going to be even more magnified in the world of air especially because of the reduced costs of operating and actually acquiring eVTOL out versus conventional verdict craft, the lower noise footprints the ability that gives you to build and land in more places, which geometrically increases your TAM. And the fact that, you know, we’ve been in this business already for six years, and flying more people in and out city centres already through helicopters, any other company in the country. That’s what we’re all about. We are an urban memorability platform and we’ll have the capital to grow quickly and we’ll have the capital to make this transition from helicopters to eVTOL and to have the kind of trust and face of the consumers and of the manufacturers to be the place that they want to go, whether it be to allow our operators to use this new equipment or to take people who felt comfortable flying and conventional rotorcraft and starting shifting their usage paths or patterns to this new type of equipment.
So, I think also, you know, definitely one of the key investment theses here is that we are positioning ourselves for this every day, we are operating the way we will operate when eVTOL here. We’re not waiting for it to come and then building it. Is just an equipment swap. Go back to the Netflix discussion we have where they shifted DVDs in a bag through the mail for streaming, and we’re shifting from helicopters to electric, vertical transportation.
Julian Klymochko: Great, you really summarize the story there succinctly. Now, before we wrap this up and let you go, where can listeners learn more about you and the company?
Rob Wiesenthal: You can, that’s a very good question. You can go to blade.com and we have an investor relations section there. We also have, I believe a media section there. You can see the products that we have today. There are also interviews with our CTO about the future of mobility, and there’s also just a lot online in terms of air mobility that they can do research on. And I think that would probably be a great place to go. Also, the press releases for experience and all the filings their S-1, and also there’s an investor presentation for our potential merger for our partner of experience. Were just ticker VXPC, so on Edgar, you can’t get that investor presentation that was made to our five investors. So, people can better understand the contemplated transaction.
Julian Klymochko: Yeah, that sounds good. So, if you’re an investor interested in the Blade story, definitely check out all the filings. For experience investment, check out the investor presentation, the press release, but Rob, truly thank you for your time today. Blade is a super interesting story, excited to see how it develops and best of luck with the going public transaction.
Rob Wiesenthal: Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Mike and Julian.
Michael Kesslering: Thank you.
Rob Wiesenthal: Have a great night.
Julian Klymochko: All right. Bye, everybody.
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