November 12, 2020-Hear Steve Letwin, former  CEO of IAMGOLD and current CEO of Mancal Corp, discuss:

  • Opportunities and challenges in the gold mining sector
  • The top ways to have gold exposure and his outlook on the price of gold
  • Gold’s role in a diversified portfolio
  • Top investment themes for the next ten years

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Welcome investors to the Absolute Return Podcast. Your source for stock market analysis, global macro musings and hedge fund investment strategies. Your hosts Julian Klymochko and Michael Kesslering aim to bring you the knowledge and analysis you need to become a more intelligent and wealthier investor. This episode is brought to you by Accelerate financial technologies. Accelerate, because performance matters. Find out more at www.Accelerateshares.Com.

Julian Klymochko: Welcome Steve to the podcast, excited to have you on today to chat about gold, gold investing and everything to do with the yellow metal. So welcome to The Absolute Return Podcast. 

Steve Letwin: Thank you, Julian. It’s my pleasure to be here.

Julian Klymochko: Great. I’d like to kick things off by just letting our listeners know some of your background, specifically in the gold business. Obviously, former leader at IAMGOLD. If you wanted to chat a bit about your background and your experience in the gold business specifically.

Steve Letwin: Yeah, I started off at Procter & Gamble and finance after I finished my master’s in business. And then got recruited by Jack Gallagher, way back before you guys were probably born. And in the 1980s, I came to Calgary to be his assistant at Dome Petroleum. So, I spent about 25 years in oil and gas. And then ended my sort of time in the only gas business with Enbridge down in Texas. I was the chief operating officer and I was the managing director in Bridges Pipelines in the US. I also ran Enbridge International Portfolio. So, I had a very significant position there, but at the age of 55, excuse me, I got recruited by the board of, IAMGOLD. I had a bit of a reputation, whether it was good luck, good management, probably good luck, mostly, but had turned around a number of businesses with Enbridge and some previous companies, including TransCanada Pipelines and had made a couple of pretty big deals that were quite positive. Enbridge in fact, sent me to Harvard for a number of months to get the advanced management degree as a result of that.

But at 55, I thought it would be good for a change. And when I got headhunted basically to go to IAMGOLD, they had some pretty significant challenges. So, IAMGOLD at the time was about a 6 billion US market cap. And gold if you remember, after the 2009 market crashed, 2008 market crash, gold went up to about $1,950 dollars. So, Enbridge’s stock went from $3 dollars to $23 dollars, and I came in just when it was around $14-15 dollars. So, we had a big run 2010 to 2012. Most of the gold equities took off, and then as the economy started to improve, gold fell precipitously from around 2000 down to a 1000. And I would say my biggest challenge and success was around getting the cost structure down at, IAMGOLD. Because costs during that, run-up in gold went through the roof and we were looking at all in sustaining costs of around $1,400 dollars an ounce.

Julian Klymochko: Does not really work. 

Steve Letwin: Does not really work at all. And we had low grade mines, West Africa, South America, and Canada. And I have a great chief operating officer, Gordon Stothart, who is now the President and CEO of IAMGOLD. He took off over after I retired and he had a great team. So, you know, we all inherited this challenge of lower grade, high sustaining costs. And we worked really hard. In fact, in 2015, 16, 17, we were the top performer on the TSX. And in fact, I got the award for having the highest return, lowest pay CEO in 2017, you know, we had a 484% rate return on investment. And so, I was a number one in Canada of all businesses. So, I was quite proud of that. But it didn’t come just because of me. It became because we had an exceptional team that put things together. And so even though gold, you know, looks like it probably will go. If you look at Goldman Sachs, gold is supposed to go up to about $2,300 dollars next year. I would just say to you, gentlemen, I would say to the people on the podcast. Costs are everything. 

Julian Klymochko: Right.

Steve Letwin: I kind of follow Mark Bristow‘s philosophy. You know, he’s the CEO of Barrick. I’m a fan of his, you know, he is a big believer that no matter what the gold price is, you’ve got to have a rate of return for your shareholders, that makes sense. And so, he runs all his models. I think at least back when I was in the business at around $1,100 dollar gold. I don’t think that’s changed much because he doesn’t believe that gold will necessarily stay at $2,000 dollars or above. And his view is, you’ve got to prepare your portfolio for when gold will fall and be able to last through those tough times. So, at IAMGOLD, I took the same view and we got our costs down, below a thousand dollars. So, we dropped it significantly. We had to lay off a lot of people, unfortunately. We brought technology into the mines and we looked, you know, in the oil and gas business, oil quality is number one. In the gold business, there is no substitute for grade. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: So, if you’re dealing with a gram a ton, that literally means you’ve got to move about 40 tons of rock to produce an ounce of gold. So, I mean, that is a lot of rocks to move. 

Julian Klymochko: For sure. 

Steve Letwin: And if you’re not good at it it’ll eat your lunch. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: So, you know, we really focused on getting high technology trucks in place.

We’re looking at self-driving trucks at the new mine they’re building at Cote, which is between Sudbury and Timmins, that’s a $1.3 billion dollar mine, biggest mine in the last five years in North America. And I know Gordon and his team are going to do a great job putting in the best technical equipment they can get and making it as efficient as possible. Cause they, you know, I always say, you know, we went through Vietnam and we remember our lessons. So even though gold lifts all the ships in the harbour, the high gold prices, it can come down just as quick. So that was probably the key lesson. And the key thing that I did at IAMGOLD was get a hold of the cost structure.

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Michael Kesslering: And in terms of that cost structure, you mentioned a lot of, I guess typically you’d think of just cutting G&A to bring down, not all in sustaining costs, but it sounds like just focused really a lot on the operational side, there was some G&A focus I’m sure. But early on the operational side, was that something that you got from your experience within Enbridge? Is that something you took away from that?

Steve Letwin: Yeah, that’s an excellent question. I mean, you’re never going to bring a company to profitability by cutting G&A. G&A is optically where you go, because people look at that. Everybody flew economy. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: Including me. if you’re going to put a policy in place like that, then you lead by example. You know, we cut our office staff by 28%. We cut business lunches, you know, all the things that came with high gold prices. And you saw that with high old prices, unfortunately hubris comes into the system. So, we cut all of that and yeah, it made a little bit of a difference. But the biggest difference to your question is that the mindsight and that’s driven by the general manager of the mine by our chief operator officer Gordon Stothart. And Gordon was a kind of guy, you know, he didn’t sit in his office and try and make it happen. He went to the sites. I went to our mine in Suriname 54 times. 

Julian Klymochko: Wow. 

Steve Letwin: You know, I lived there and same with West Africa. I went to this site, you know, 50 times and you needed to, ‘cause that presence makes a huge difference and give credit to where credit is due. The guys at the site, the gals at the site. They made that company, you know, into a very successful company. And it survived because it wouldn’t have survived given its high cost structure. And then the low gold prices, IAMGOLD would not have survived without the help of the team at the sites and in the head office.

Julian Klymochko: Right, it seems like a bear market in prices, it provides the incentive to become more efficient, more lean, and really focus on that cost structure and wringing out any sort of efficiencies that you can. And so, IAMGOLD 6 billion market cap with mine seemingly all over the world. You mentioned Suriname, West Africa. What was it like traveling there?

Steve Letwin: Well, West Africa was probably the most challenging. I had eight bodyguards with AK47, so you know, you have land in Ouagadougou and it took me probably three months to be able to pronounce it properly. I’ve been to Africa, but not West Africa. And, you know Burkina Faso where the mine is, is one of the five probably poorest countries in the world.

Julian Klymochko: It seems like there’s constant military coups going on over there as well.

Steve Letwin: We had a president there who actually, I became quite good friends with Blaise Compaore who had to flee the country because he wanted to stay longer than his term. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: Sounds familiar. Doesn’t it? So, he unfortunately had to flee and go to Cote d’Ivoire, but yeah, there’s a lot of unrest. When you get into countries, Julian where you know, people aren’t getting all the food they want and the education they want. And with social media, now, these people can see what’s going on in other parts of the world. And they want that too. I mean, naturally. So, you know, for these people they look at unfortunately at you know, violence, terrorism to get what they want. And our mine is close to the border with Niger and Northern Mali, where there’s a whole bunch of terrorism. And so, you know, we had a mine set up that had to protect our employees. Safety of our employees, I would just say, there’s nothing more important. It trumps everything, so, you know, we had 140-armed people at our site in Burkina Faso and you know, we had just all sorts of technology to protect our people there. And so, it was quite an experience, but you know, you can’t show fear. You go over there and you do your job. And Gordon did the same thing. Our CFO, Carol Banducci, you know, one of the best CFOs I have met. She went over there on a regular basis. Ben Little, you know, Jeff Snow, all of these people as part of the team, Craig McDougall, they were not at all inhibited, they went over there, they showed leadership and it made a huge difference to the people there. 

Julian Klymochko: Right, the interesting notion from an investor’s standpoint, you mentioned one-year IAMGOLD having a 484% return, truly exceptional. Obviously, you won’t get that by just investing in the physical commodity and going back 20 years ago, investors basically had two choices, go to the gold store, buy some gold coins or go to the market and pick some gold stocks. But these days, investors have a myriad of potential choices with respect to gaining exposure to gold, whether it’s a gold ETF or a closed end fund, say the spider gold trust or a Sprott Physical Trust, things such as that, where you can get pure exposure to the commodity. Then on the flip side of the coin, you can invest in a single equity, or you can do a basket ETF approach or things of that nature. In your opinion, if an investor wanted exposure to gold, are they better off in the yellow metal, the commodity itself, or in gold equities?

Steve Letwin: If you do the math, you know, do a simple example. So, let’s say gold is at $1,200 dollars and you in break-even is $1,200 dollars. So, you’re all end sustaining costs equals the gold price, you’re not generating cashflow. And let’s suppose you’re generating a million ounces a year of gold. So, all of a sudden gold jumps a, $100 dollars, which is less than 10% on the physical, but for the company, all of a sudden you have a hundred dollars times a million ounces of free cashflow. So, you know that with the way that stocks trade, that the multiple, that you’re going to get on the equities as far greater than the multiple, than you’re going to get on the physical goal. And so, if you’re a high cost producer, which IAMGOLD was, and we went through the let’s get the cost down phase, which we did down below a thousand and then gold in 2008, as you marched towards 2018, was jumping up to 13, $1,400 dollars, all of a sudden you go from no cashflow to $400 million dollars a year in cashflow. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: I mean. 

Julian Klymochko: Tremendous operating leverage. 

Steve Letwin: A buck share, basically. And if you’re trading at eight times, then you’re going from a buck share price, which is close to where we were to $8 dollars. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Michael Kesslering: Maybe even a rerating as well. 

Steve Letwin: Rerating, everything. Guys in Hong Kong who, you know, I had worked with in my oil and gas days that printed money, because they took a chance on me on the management team and bought probably, I would say somewhere around 80 million shares. 

Julian Klymochko: Wow. 

Steve Letwin: And they made a killing because they had faith in the management team and in the gold price. And to this day, you know, they still do. 

Julian Klymochko: That’s really the magic formula with respect to gold equities investment. You want at least four maximums, you know, these triple digit returns where you’re getting 5 bag or 10 bags, or even higher, you obviously need you know, the facilitation of a good environment for the underlying commodity. 

Steve Letwin: Right. 

Julian Klymochko: Because it helps increase that operating leverage. But you know, there is this sense of good management teams where even in a rising price environment, if you don’t have that, then you could underperform the commodity or the physical gold price significantly. And we actually saw that quite a bit in the last cycle, you had a number of these producers that were spending significantly and doing M&A that didn’t really make too much sense, overpaying for assets, just seeking growth at any cost. And it appears that they lacked the discipline that you instilled at IAMGOLD.

Steve Letwin: I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention our board of directors, which was chaired by Don Charter, who I have a huge amount of time for. He’s brilliant, and, you know, we had people on the board you know, John Caldwell, Tim Snyder, Rick Richhall, you know, people from Barrack, civil V men, you know, we were Mahindra and I’m sure I’m missing some, but, you know, Don Charter was critical to me as CEO, as chair of the board, he empowered us. And if I had to use a word at, IAMGOLD that really worked, it was empowerment. And we let our people, you know, we didn’t abdicate, but we let them run with the ball. And, you know, we didn’t have bureaucracy, we didn’t have micromanager. And we said, look, this is where we have to get to.

And the management team, the executive team was very much like that. Our board with Don Charter at the helmet as chairman did a phenomenal job. And Cote, which we were really criticized for buying in 2012, you know has turned out to be an unbelievable asset. You’re looking at a deposit that’s probably going to get to 20 million ounces. Grade is low, but it’s very concentrated right near the six kilometres off the highway and surrounded by infrastructure. This will be a mine of the future and the value of Cote; this is my prediction. The value of Cote will soon surpass the entire market cap of IAMGOLD and value. You saw that with Detour, you know, as an example and it’s coming and Gordon Stothart is leading the charge. It’s going to take you two years to build that mine, but it’s going to be, you know, 300 to 400,000-ounce producer at low cost.

And it’s the future of the company and good for the board directors and the management team for making it happen, and the first nations that are there. I’ll call out to my very, very good friend, Chief Chad, who is with the Mattagami first nations without his help, and Chief Murray from flying posts, this wouldn’t have happened. It was a great project. I left the company knowing it was in very good hands, retired as I promised Gordon, I would after 10 years. And God bless him. He’s, you know, dealing with COVID and leading the charge.

Julian Klymochko: It’s certainly building a mine these days is not the easiest task. 

Steve Letwin: No. 

Julian Klymochko: And there’s so many different constituents that you need to, you know, make happy, let in on the economics and make sure, you know, their rights, whether they’re first nations or local employment, government, environmental issues, there’s so many considerations that make it significantly more difficult than it was say, 50 years ago, where none of those really came into play. 

Steve Letwin: Right. 

Julian Klymochko: So, we touched on kind of your history in the gold business. Now, I want to talk about gold on a forward-looking basis, basically a really interesting environment for gold specifically throughout the pandemic, we’ve seen record amounts of fiscal and monetary stimulus that always perks up the ears of gold bugs. If they hear about money printing, quantitative easing to infinity effectively, tens of trillions of global stimulus negative bond yields north of 17 trillion globally. So, I was wondering, has this whole pandemic and associated stimulus measures, did that affect your outlook on gold? And if so, you know, what are your thoughts on the future prospects for gold itself?

Steve Letwin: I cannot see anything but an upward trend for gold. And I say that because, and we were just talking about that before the podcast, $17 trillion in debt out there and negative interest rates. And I just can’t see the fed increasing rates for the foreseeable future. So, gold you know, gold becomes a very attractive investment when the carrying costs from the gold is actually lower than the cost of debt. So, you’re getting to a point where, as a hedge against inflation, which I don’t see coming in the near future, but it will come. There is a hedge against volatility, like we’re seeing in the US with the US dollar. I mean, look at the US. It is completely divided. 57% of the entire white population of the US voted for Trump.

Julian Klymochko: Right.

Steve Letwin: And for white males, it was even higher. So, what brought Biden in was obviously the black population and white women. And so, you’ve got a Congress now that’s barely in the favour of the dems. You’ve got a Senate going to go, looks like the favour of the Republicans. What exactly is Biden going to get passed? He’s not going to be able to reduce or increase taxes. He’s going to be handcuffed probably in a lot of the healthcare things that he’s talking about, the tech guys love it, because he probably can’t do much about technology. And there’s gold sitting there and people are looking at it and saying, whoa, wait a minute now. Where’s the US dollar going in the future? And I had to think it’s going to have probably weakened. I would have to think that gold is going to go through $2,000 dollars again and towards $2,500 dollars next year. And once it breaks through there, it could easily go through $3,000 dollars. If you’re not holding gold in your portfolio to some level. Physical gold or gold equities, I think you’re making a huge mistake, that’s my view. I hold a lot of IAMGOLD shares. I was the biggest independent shareholder of IAMGOLD. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: And I’m still a big believer. So, I hold a lot of IAMGOLD shares and I believe it’s going to move north.

Julian Klymochko: Yeah, the thesis underlying gold as an investment. It’s interesting because you point to inflation protection. If we go back to an environment such as the 1970s, you saw a significant out performance of gold versus say the S&P 500 or a treasury bond. And so that’s something to consider. There are specific environments that it can significantly outperform and not just maintain purchasing power. So that’s something to consider, so really wanted to get more of your thoughts on gold purpose within a diversified portfolio. I have heard other investment theses that say, you know, the price action in gold is related to negative real rates. You know, if nominal interest rates are below the rate of inflation, then gold price will only go up. Another interesting thesis that I’ve heard. And this is probably from way, way long ago, they said. One ounce of gold should always buy a man two nights suits. So that’s one thing that I kind of like to think of when, considering where things are right now, where I sort of in that 18, $1,900 dollar US per ounce range. And that seems about right. Perhaps there’s some upside option.

Steve Letwin: Well if you shop at Harry Rosen, it’s going to double soon.


Julian Klymochko: Depends on what sort quality.

Steve Letwin: Exactly.  

Julian Klymochko: and in terms of, say exposure in a well-diversified portfolio, A family office or a high net worth individual, even like a regular do it yourself or retail investor. That’s trying to go beyond just say a 60/ 40 portfolio. What sort of size would you like to see a diversified portfolio have in exposure to gold?

Steve Letwin: I’d say minimum 5%. 

Julian Klymochko: Right.

Steve Letwin: Minimum and higher now. I worked for a family office and we hold physical gold. I’m constantly pushing for more and get rebuffed because we’re above that 5% now, but yeah. So, there’s good reason to be rebuffed. I mean you know, you got to be careful, but I follow Warren Buffet a lot and a huge fan, read all his stuff. You know, when he went into Barrick, he took a position in the gold equities, the gold equities. 

Julian Klymochko: Yeah. 

Steve Letwin: And he dissed gold forever. 

Michael Kesslering: For the last 20 years, more that 20 years. 

Steve Letwin: Funny people that buy gold, yeah, he made fun of them.

Julian Klymochko: The surprising thing is he was once in time, a number of decades ago, one of the largest holders of physical silver on the planet. 

Steve Letwin: There you go. So, you know, when he made that move into Barrick, I mean, I think that’s a signal to me that he’s not a stupid man. Obviously, he’s a genius. 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: It’s a signal to me that they’ve crossed the Rubicon and you should either hold physical gold or gold equities or silver. Silver has got lots of upside too, but these precious metals and what people forget guys, is how hard it is to find gold now? 

Julian Klymochko: Right. 

Steve Letwin: Especially in friendly jurisdictions. So, you know, working in the middle of Africa versus Canada, or the US, is far, far different than people realize, unless you’ve been over there, like I have. So, to find a good deposit in Canada, that’s reasonable grade, say a gram and a half a ton for bulk tonnage or north of 12 grams, a ton for underground. You just can’t find them anymore. And when you do find them, it takes, as you said, years, years to bring them in the production for all the reasons that we will know. We have a depleting resource that you know, is going to face higher costs and gold prices I think are going to continue to move up. Either in the equities or in the physical gold.

Michael Kesslering: With your outlook in mind of rising price environment and over the last, I guess, throughout COVID and over the last year, really, we’ve seen a decent amount of M&A in the gold sector in Canada. What do you think are going to be the trends in the M&A sector moving forward in that sort of rising price environment?

Steve Letwin: Significant increase. There’ll be paper deals, and there’ll always be a concern about overpaying, but I’m going to tell you right now. They are not replacing depletion, certainly not in North America. And so, it takes a good 10 to 15 years to bring a gold mine into production from first discovery. And when you have to go through all the environmental, I’ll take Cote as an example. Cote started with Trelawney probably eight years before we bought it in 2012, and we announced it eight years later in terms of breaking ground. So that was 16 years of exploration, working with the first nations, working with the government on environmental, all those things to get to a point to break ground. And now it will take two and a half years to three years to build that mine at a cost of 1.3 billion Canadian dollars. So, we’re talking at the end of the day, close to 20 years. So, and that’s for about a 400,000 ounce a year producer. So, you know, gold is running around 105-107 million ounces a year of production. And who’s finding that amount of production in reserves. The math doesn’t work. So, I think there’s going to be a whole lot of pressure to consolidate. And I think Mark Bristow has made that very clear that as time goes on (A) keep costs down, like, I think we have something like 16 companies on Bay street in the gold business. That’s insane, all the G&A that goes with that doesn’t make any sense to me. And so, I think you’re going to see it come. And I just think people will be very wary of trying to pay the premium. Most of them will probably be at market deals that are done with paper, but they will happen.

Julian Klymochko: Yeah, and we definitely have seen some of that as you indicated from Mark Bristow, he has been doing some M&A, but he’s the type of disciplined acquire that really doesn’t want to pay any sort of control premium. And as you indicated, they’re just looking to do paper deals low, to no premium and squeeze out the synergies such that the proforma entity is, you know, significantly more profitable. Other interesting dynamic we see as some state-owned entities getting into the gold M&A game, whether it’s Shandong Gold out of China, or we’re saying Nordgold out of Russia you know, from these sorts of strong-arm entity type countries, you’re seeing them looking to consolidate the industry as well. So, there’s an interesting dynamic, state owned entities and then you know, free western capital markets competing against each other. So, we’re interested to observe where that goes into the future. One thing that we didn’t really touch on much over this podcast, as far as the notion of silver, do you think silver plays a role or if an investor has gold that’s enough?

Steve Letwin: I think silver plays a big role. And silver generally is very underestimated in terms of its potential. Silver has very strong industrial uses, you know, gold has some industrial use, but silver is probably twice to three times that and silver, again, very few people that explore for silver [Inaudible 00:29:52] gold. I really think silver, you know, will go through $30 dollars. It’s sitting at around 24 the last time I looked. I think there’s huge upside for silver.

Julian Klymochko: Yeah, it’s interesting because if we go back in the early 2010s, when silver went on, just that Epic run, I think from below $10 to north of $40 dollars per ounce, I remember going back to my way, way old coin collection, because I remember they used to make Canadian silver dollars and I knew I had a bunch of them and I checked. And unfortunately, they started two years after when they substituted the silver for nickel. So, I was out of luck because I was looking to cash in on the silver craze. Unfortunately, didn’t get to them.

Steve Letwin: I’m sorry.

Julian Klymochko: So, Steve, I want to put you on the spot here in terms of your favourite investment over the next 10 years. If you get a hold, just one, what would it be? 

Steve Letwin: Favourite Investment? Are you talking on the metal side then? 

Julian Klymochko: In anything? This could be unrelated to gold. It could be… 

Michael Kesslering: Could be commodity, equity. 

Julian Klymochko: Could be negative yielding debt.

Steve Letwin: I’d have to tell you that, you know, I continue to be a big fan of the precious metals. So, I believe gold and silver equity companies. You know, whether it be a company like IAMGOLD or whether it be a Barrick or a Yamana, Agnico Eagle, or, you know, Pan American silver, whatever. These are all investments that I would say are at the top of my list. I do like, and I know this is probably going to sound potentially insane. I do like some of the oil and gas opportunities. I sit on the Hess Midstream board. I’m active here in Calgary in the oil and gas business, and I see the amount of capital that’s left the industry and, you know, oil and gas is very similar to the precious metals. It’s a shark fed business.

If you don’t put capital back in the ground, your reserves deplete. And I think we’re probably 20 to 30 years away from seeing us being hydrocarbon free where renewables will replace only gas. So, I do think that, you know, investing in oil and gas right now. The Pembina Pipelines of the world, the Enbridge’s of the world that are yielding nine, nine and a quarter percent. And you look at these companies balance sheets, and you look at their call it conservative approach. I’ll take that all day long. And I’d be remiss. I sit on Frontier Lithium, it’s a junior lithium company with the Walker family. I’m also a big fan of what that will bring down the road. Batteries are going to be the future. We are going to transition towards electric vehicles. We are going to transition to a more carbon-free environment, that’s in the cards. I think it’d be a mistake not to accept that, but we’re not going to do it overnight. So, I think you’re going to see oil and gas spikes. I think you’re going to see spikes in gold and silver, and I think you’re going to see spikes in copper and in lithium. And so those are where I’m going to be putting my money.

Julian Klymochko: Great. Well, there you have it folks, some good investment outlooks from Steve Letwin in the gold industry and some other titbits, as well as. Steve, anything else before we let you go, I assume you don’t have much of a social media presence.

Steve Letwin: No, I got off social media when I was traveling to Africa as somebody hacked into my accounts and it got a little bit crazy, but I just want to congratulate you gentlemen, for your job at Accelerate here. I know you’re the new alternative ETF provider and you’ve had great success. I follow you on LinkedIn, you got a brilliant crew here and so congratulations and I wish you the best going forward. We need more people like you out there, more Canadians that are looking at the future like you do

Julian Klymochko: Well thank you Steve. Thank you for the kind words and thank you for coming on the podcast. 

Steve Letwin: Pleasure 

Julian Klymochko: And to all our listeners. We hope you enjoyed it and we’ll chat with you next week. Cheers.

Thanks for tuning in to the Absolute Return Podcast. This episode was brought to you by Accelerate Financial Technologies. Accelerate, because performance matters. Find out more at The views expressed in this podcast to the personal views of the participants and do not reflect the views of Accelerate. No aspect of this podcast constitutes investment legal or tax advice. Opinions expressed in this podcast should not be viewed as a recommendation or solicitation of an offer to buy or sell any securities or investment strategies. The information and opinions in this podcast are based on current market conditions and may fluctuate and change in the future. No representation or warranty expressed or implied is made on behalf of Accelerate as to the accuracy or completeness of the information contained in this podcast. Accelerate does not accept any liability for any direct indirect or consequential loss or damage suffered by any person as a result relying on all or any part of this podcast and any liability is expressly disclaimed.





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